You are talking apples and oranges... that was pre the financial crash, where most financials were down 80%+ at one point and many went BK.... and it was a multi year target based on BV.... unlike you i change with the times and i took advantage of the gift that mr' emotional markets mistake and bought a great company at a fraction of its worth, and made a lot of money from it.... now they are also executing better than almost anyone......... combine ratios for WTM re and One beacon much better than peers, esurance is profitable and life re is stable/hedged and not losing money.... BV is growing by leaps and bounds and they are conservatively invested...gonna get an extra boost when they IPO Symmetra