Wow, tell that to Sully Sullenberger.

Taken from my other thread... you never replied.

Re: GM Bankruptcy, APA WAKE UP!!! 1-Apr-09 09:42 pm Another ignorant, clueless, emotion-based, factless statement. Allow me to retort...

Ignorant is asking for a 50% pay raise during the worst recession since the great depression. Esp. after a $1.9 billion OPERATING loss last year.

Clueless is for those very experienced underpaid pilots not to look for work elsewhere... oh wait thats right, the grass is not greener on the other side!!! AA pilots are already very well compensated (some of the highest wages in the industry) relative to their peers, otherwise they would have left already!

Emotion-based is crying about the m-AA-nagement salaries and bonuses this year, the 800 to 1,000 top management employees that so far have kept this company out of bankruptcy. AA is the only legacy carrier in the United States which has not filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. However, the unions would have us believe that execs are taking billions in cash. Instead it's approx 7 million in stock. Big difference. Meanwhile the unions are trying to hurt AA's ability to compete and thrive.

How is this for a factless statement: American's LABOR (not management) costs were the highest among major carriers in 2007 at 4.04 cents per available seat mile.. and that is 22 percent lower than in 2002!!

Ok for you, and only you----I will "try again":

(As if the last list wasn't disgusting enough)----here's a short list of 6 figure incomes requiring little to no longterm training or education (Forbes.com as source):

Sales, Coach, Truck Driver, Plumber, Newspaper pressman, Freelance tech writer, restaurant manager.

>>>>>1. City Manager Mike Joyal $172,431.88

2. Fire Chief Perry Plummer $155,311.39

3. Fire Captain David Duquette $149,269.31

4. Fire Captain Kenneth Brennan $141,172.81

5. Police Lieutenant Carey Beaulieu $141,058.78

6. Assistant Fire Chief Richard Driscoll $139,003.87

7. Library Director Cathy Beaudoin $135,158.89

8. Police Chief Anthony Colarusso $134,596.74

9. Fire Captain James Ormond $134,171.64

10. Fire Captain Richard Bell $133,531.57<<<<
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Not a single one of those is a private enterprise job. They all rely on taxpayers to fund them. Try again.

Your ignorance requires no response, however....like the X-box generation flunky with his pants hanging off his ass and a Justin Timberlake goofy-ass hat on who poked his head in the cockpit and asked---- "dude, so how do you start this thing, with a key?" (Same intelligence level and thought process.)

Hoops, you are on crack seriously... these new planes will fly themselves... Pilots are nothing more than lifeguards at the beach. How much do lifeguards get paid?

From today's newspaper in Dover, New Hampshire:

Compensation: Dover's top 10 for fiscal year 2008

Monday, April 13, 2009

Article: Dover pay, benefits spending stays relatively steady
Article: Full Dover compensation list

1. City Manager Mike Joyal $172,431.88

2. Fire Chief Perry Plummer $155,311.39

3. Fire Captain David Duquette $149,269.31

4. Fire Captain Kenneth Brennan $141,172.81

5. Police Lieutenant Carey Beaulieu $141,058.78

6. Assistant Fire Chief Richard Driscoll $139,003.87

7. Library Director Cathy Beaudoin $135,158.89

8. Police Chief Anthony Colarusso $134,596.74

9. Fire Captain James Ormond $134,171.64

10. Fire Captain Richard Bell $133,531.57

>>>Any company that uses employee concessions as a longterm, viable business plan is doomed-----and so are we if that's all that our "top talent" we reatain with bonuses has to offer.<<<
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After thirty years of Reaganomics, you still don't get it do you? Your observation above is a feature - not a bug - of the Friedman/Reagan/Gramm/Greenspan neo-liberal obsession with unfettered "free markets", globalization, and unrestrained corporate hegemony.

During the thirty year time frame a large number of US companies, especially those in older industries, have managed to "grow" earnings only through consolidation, job-cutting, and outsourcing (combined with accounting fraud and various forms of financial finesse). Whole US industries have been sacrificed on the alter of cheap-labor globalization. It's been a race to the bottom for US workers and it is certainly not over yet. As you've noticed, CEOs no longer even try to hide their greed or disdain for their employees (or taxpayers).

What can you do about it? Nothing. Personally, I'm hoping that you guys strike. It'll be fun watching you walk around in circles carrying picket signs while customers give you the finger. In the end, management will toss you a dog biscuit or some other little treat and you'll roll over. Otherwise you'll have to risk your top 5% gravy train job and pension. IMO, not enough of your insecure brothers will take the long odds of that strategy working out.

http://www.americanexeccheck.com/?gclid=...

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/...

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/St...

Then go invest in GM if you think they are in such great shape. Your balance sheet analysis and lack of understanding we are not giving anymore tells the rest of the story. Employee concessions are not a viable business plan, especially when those very employees already gave substancially. Why do folks like you never mention management excesses during the same time period or the lack of management gives? Perhaps you are in management yourself. Plan on an interesting summer, if I were you I'd move your money over to the "healthy balance sheet" GM. LMAO

No need to get personal. I have not with you.

Also go learn how to read a Bal Sheet before you get in the stock market. In terms of liquid assets to total liabilities GM is actually in better shape.

AMR GM

Current Assets $ 5.9M $ 41.3M

Total Liabilities $ 28.1M $ 177.2M

Ratio Lia / CA 4.7x 4.3x

I believe & hope there is a middle ground. Full restoration of previous pay is not do-able under AMR's current financial position relative to upcoming pymt obligations. They have valuable assets and brand, but they are uncompetitive given their finanical position (downgraded debt) and will become more so with labor concessions. Who cares who's fault it is, those are the facts.

The airline is mismanaged, and understaffed, operating on the margins-----I cant tell you how many times the crew gets you to the destination early, then waits 15 minutes for a crew to park us due to understaffing and operating on the margins----you say it as if it's the EMPLOYEES fault----what a moron.

Secondly, do your research----our pay is not out of touch and our scales are right with BANKRUPT carriers now, and we PAID 2.5 billion to earn industry leading pay and SAVE the share holder from bankruptcy. (as a matter of fact the stock went as high as $40) This was management's "work together win together" mantra in 2003. Since then, THEY won while stripping our great airline down to the bone in cost-cutting and resources. What you see is what management gives you, a stripped-down, understaffed, unhappy, paycut airline.

Thirdly, I am a shareholder and likely own more shares than you-----I also have blood/sweat equity and a LONGterm interest in the survival and contribute daily to the bottom line and cash generation as a productive and professional employee. As a shareholder, I also gave $200,000 in paycuts since 2003----to answer your question "what has the shareholder gave".

And comparing underwater government backed GM on life support to cash solvent, new airplane ordering, management bonusing, world-wide networking American Airlines in new rules bankruptcy scenarios is like comparing Stevie Wonder to a fighter pilot.

Any company that uses employee concessions as a longterm, viable business plan is doomed-----and so are we if that's all that our "top talent" we reatain with bonuses has to offer. And you may be tired of heearing me complain about the 2.5 billion in employee givebacks, however, I'm tired of hearing pilots should GIVE more-----we already gave in 2003. Find a new business plan.

The financing is secured by the planes themselves - so no big deal there and they did it before the credit collapse.

I don't believe the sky is falling either but the facts are they need to find $2.1B to pay debt (excluding OP expenses & CAPEX) in the next 9 months. They have $3.1B left. After that they have another $9B to pay down. They have not generated any cash in years and in spite of your labor pilot comparisions they are still (all in labor) the most expensive labor airline & have one of the worst on-time performances.

Every personal situation is different, and your feelings may not represent everyone. Maybe the 60 year old pilot who is close to his pension couldn't give a crap about a pay restoration it it endangers his $1.8M bounty.

You are on crack if you think BK is NOT an option - it absolutley is. Ask GM.

I am tired about hearing the $2.5B give. What has the shareholder given over the same period, or heck over the past 6 months?

We already gave pal----over 2.5 billion as a pilot group collectively since 2003 (I personally have given up over $200,000 in pay cuts in last 6 years) while management has fleeced their fat pockets with bonuses. You must be on CRACK to think we will conceed more! It would cost the price of a happy meal on your (already underpriced) ticket to RESTORE (not even RAISE) our pay. And artificially lowering pilot pay scales and managing expectations lower by going though bankruptcy under the old laws is over, sorry fellas. By the way, check your facts---- the new pay scales have Delta and Northwest pilots (both former bankrupt airlines) at HIGHER pay rates than AMR currently has. It's not that easy anymore. Even the "X-box generation" pilots I speak to over at Eagle with $100k in flight school debt look dazed and confused as if it was a surprise they'd be paid $22k a year to start. The drawing down and dilluting of our profession by driving an airline into bankruptcy is over, and the newbies are feeling the pain of working for peanuts in the regionals (why did they even do it?) and understanding that they are drawing down the expectations and "whoring" their services on their end too. Change is coming. And AA is well aligned for the future-----when they restore us, the company will return to stability and prosperity. Hell, they just secured financing on a fleet of new 737's-----the sky is not falling, they just want us (and you) to believe it is ---while they stuff more bonus cash in their pockets and order new aircraft.

Hope they do the right thing and realize they have to make concessions in a down economy not demand more.

Especially when AMR already pays above market when considering their once bankrupt competitors

Good article. Unions while their charter is admirable, a 50% pay increase/restoration is a pipedream. AMR are still uncompetitive. Who would want to risk their $1M+ pension for a raise now??